Interview with IGC Founder – Kerry Griffin. 22nd March 2023
What made you start Integrated Care Group (ICG)?
ICG was born, as a result of working for numerous recruitment companies and realising that the word ‘recruitment’ wasn’t a particularly friendly term. One day at work I was listening to a recruiter speak to a candidate, absolutely abysmally. At the time recruitment felt like it was more about making money for the fat cats and not about the people at the end of the telephone. The recruiters behaved as if they had forgotten who they were working for; the client! I suddenly thought it was a money printing machine as opposed to a service driven machine. Something changed in me whilst listening to conversation, I decided that I wanted to put recruitment back into the recruitment role. By creating a business that placed the candidate at the heart of the business, for the South, Essex, Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire and beyond.
Touching on the word ‘recruitment’. It does have a certain perception & image. Can you in your own words articulate what recruitment is and why you believe you’re different from recruiters?
The perception to recruitment is that there are these aggressive, money hungry individuals that offer a solution, yet they don’t understand the business. They are offering something they don’t understand. Whilst I know this isn’t true for all recruiters, it’s the reputation they have.
For me recruitment is about providing a workforce that enhances and adds value to a current and substantive work force, or that covers sickness or issues that happen around the world. All of a sudden because of the shortage in the market people are using it for their own benefit, rather than looking at the need of the service and the calibre of candidates. They are trying to place a round peg in a square hole without going through the requirements. At the end of the day, it’s about the delivery, it’s about delivering the right client to the candidate, but also about the right candidate to client. It’s about the values and visions that they both perceive not just the role itself.
JUST CALL US MATCHMAKERS – WE MATCH THE CANDIDATES TO THE CLIENTS.
What do you think needs to change in the NHS?
I think the work we do is really important, for the simple reason that the World is highly populated. The NHS born in the 1940’s was built as a small entity for a smaller population and suddenly it’s become this monstrous machine that delivers a service to so many people nationwide. On the backside of that a lot of people from overseas come to use the NHS, whether they pay for it or not. So, it’s a recognised service. One of the key things for us, is to spend taxpayers money wisely and more efficiently and part of that reason is people want to be at home. They are more comfortable at home if they are sick. And to aid admission avoidance, it costs more to keep people in hospital. Some people need to go to hospital, but the beds then get clogged up. It’s about everything moving all the time, so patients being comfortable at home. Patient’s family as a support structure, so you don’t need the people to come in and provide the service if we can use the natural support structures around us, in line with the integrated care services which we have available. To have specialists come in on occasions, or scheduled sessions to see those patients. That in turn is more cost effective, than putting somebody into a hospital, far more expensive, away from their family and you’ve suddenly clogged up a bed for somebody that may need the bed more urgently.
What other challenges are facing your industry right now?
There are a number of challenges facing the healthcare industry right now, one challenge is the availability of the work force, the numbers are extremely low, there are thousands of GP shortages, we have more people leaving the industry than entering. This is both nurses, doctors, and healthcare professionals overall. You’ve a healthcare system that is lowly paid, but the demand is extremely high, so it doesn’t get the recognition. I try not to be politically minded, but I think one of the best things the government thought of is the national insurance contribution increase going into the NHS, I believe it should go in to provide for additional workforce on the ground level/ the front line so we can achieve what we are trying to achieve.
If you look at what happened during covid, you’d go to the hospital for an appointment and wait for hours, covid happened and all of a sudden we have this structure of an appointment system, that you went on your own, you were seen in 15 mins and you left. But I don’t feel we’ve learnt from that. I feel we are already slipping back into this chaotic world rather than taking what we had, what we learnt and applying it to move forward. So, I think there is a lot to be done and a lot of structure that we’ve learnt from the past, being implemented, rather than just being used for a period. We just slip back into a calamity. So unfortunately, it will repeat itself until we do learn.
If you were the health secretary for the day what would you do?
I take my hat off to these people if I’m honest, it’s a hard job! I sit on the outside and I see it from my own world, they see it from their world. I just think ‘can one person really make all the decisions’? Yes we give them a team to enable them to do the job they do, but they don’t go out to people like us, go into trusts and listen to what they need, look at supply chain to see what we can supply. It’s great we have an idea that we are going to do ‘xyz’, but actually is there the ability to do that? It’s really, that we have great ideas in theory but can they work in practice. If they can work in practice what’s the implementation period and it’s having that structure laid out.
Look at NHS direct, a really good product, not marketed or branded correctly and not utilised and unfortunately it was closed and reinvented as the pathway 111. Overall, a different system but very similar. Which seems to have worked because they have stuck with it and have the structure. You will always have emergency and non-emergency working side by side and this is the way it’s going, but it’s sticking with it and seeing it all the way through. The thing is governments change and they want to make an impact and they break something that is probably working just fine, but may need a little more tweaking. It has to be about the big picture not the personal/ political gain.
It’s continuity as you say. If you throw the baby out with the bath water, every time there is a change of government. It’s the nation’s largest employer so it’s not an easy task.
Yes it’s the nation’s largest employer and the reality is we could put another 100K people into the NHS it wouldn’t be enough. If we look at everything that has happened in society everything is becoming so big. I’m not saying things should be fragmented off, but do each region / trust work collaboratively? What works in the South may not work in the North.
For me there are also so many workforce opportunities in the NHS, we have affluent areas, deprived areas but opportunities should be available for all. We need more bursary’s, ways to encourage more people to think about the healthcare service as a career option. Why are we not promoting that? I was at school a long time ago and I had a careers officer speak to us, people from public services, police, nurses, doctors, bakers, and kids got it. All we get now is bad press about working in the public sector, but look at all the good it does, this narrative never plays out. Think about the pension, infrastructure, the investment in people, a vision of where you’re going, teamwork, total diversity, it’s absolutely awesome, but we don’t promote that. We speak about the bad things, and for me if we started early enough, sowing the seeds in schools to tell them all the great things, instead of listening to the media, then we would have a larger, diverse, capable and motivated workforce.
Do you think there is a perception then about a career in healthcare being an option for some and not all? If there was more awareness earlier, do you think there would be a levelling? So that people begin to see this as a long-term opportunity.
Yeah, I do because we have a lot of ethnic minority families who work together as families and support each other. Some give up their dreams of a career, as they must contribute to the family. Why are we stopping good academic people having a career and adding something to the value of the country? We could be investing in them to do that, and supporting them. So, we have a double-edged sword. Not only supporting them to have a career but supporting the family, allowing them to integrate and contribute to society. I think it’s really important.
Going back to the beginning, and the industry you operate in, why do you think you’re different?
We are personable, I think every candidate counts, they are an individual. I think one of the best phases we are using is the basis of our new marketing campaign; “We get to know the people behind the badge”. It’s about the person, they are individuals they have different needs, they are all people that represent ICG. For us they are part of our family and I think that makes us different. We recognise the value. We wouldn’t have a business if it wasn’t for those people. We work for them they don’t work for us. That’s the difference, it’s seeing them as people, their needs and what we can do to support them.
There is a reason why you have so many referrals and recommendations, it’s easy to say we care, and we are different but the numbers speak volumes. You haven’t done a lot of marketing; you’ve relied on word of mouth because your candidates do see and feel that.
I think one of the things that is really important to us, is we haven’t advertised. We have grown from a standing start, to where we are today and you’re right it’s though client and candidate recommendations and that says we are doing something right. I think it’s that individual service. We are still of the size that if somebodies time sheet is late, we can push it through we aren’t rigid. You can be a willow tree or an oak tree. If something changes you move with it or you snap. We are a willow tree. That’s what we have to do, circumstances are different. It’s about listening, and I think that’s really important, they aren’t just a product on a shelve. Or an object we farm out, we work for them and equally they have gone to work to earn money. If they are having a bad day, we are here for them, their PA’s, counsellors, their friends, whatever they need us to be.
You take that responsibility seriously because you remember key moments in their lives, you celebrate birthdays with them you go the extra mile which you don’t always find in your industry.
We have heard candidates say that their husbands are fed up they get chocolate at Easter from us and they don’t. We recognise, Easter, birthday’s, Ramadan, and sadly if they have lost a loved one we send them flowers to say we are thinking of them. It’s about a well-rounded family that is functional and not dysfunctional.
When you break it down what you are doing is trading people, but they are people they have families, they are precious to their families, friends and loved ones. I think the commoditization of people in recruitment (traditionally) is the reputation recruitment has. I think anyone that works in the people environment should have a conscience and heart, they need to care/ support and it feels with some recruitment companies it’s a contradiction.
And I think that’s why recruitment has a bad name, as you are dealing with people. People are real they have feelings and I think my experience that really flipped in my head was they spoke to candidates like they had no value and that wasn’t comfortable for me. A professional person being spoken to in the manner they were spoken to. It was abysmal. I thought I need to change this, it’s not acceptable. That person has feelings, how does that person feel coming off the phone, that person went and worked for that person that was behaving abysmally on the phone. I thought what would happen if somebody treated you well and values you for the person you are, and I think that was the tipping point.
What has been your proudest moment?
I think the proudest moment was that we broke into the market. It’s personal really. We’d applied for a contract with a prestigious client, and we were invited to a presentation and it was the day after I lost my mother. So, for me it was a very rewarding moment; one I managed to do it and hold my head with my emotions in pieces and secondly that my parents had supported me all the way with the dream. I felt there was a bit of help there for me on that day. Part of the contract was supplying and delivering, 4 years on we are still delivering against that promise.
How would you describe your team?
I think the most important thing is that people know how to talk to people! It’s about service. So, they are a PA to every candidate, so I look for likeability, work rate, great attitude and understanding from individuals. The flexibility. We work 24/7/365 days a year. We don’t sub out any of our out of hours work. All our team does it, as we have that personal relationship with the candidates, so I look for that with the people that apply to ICG.
Also, what they bring to the table. As for me it’s about investing in them to progress through the ranks. If we invest in our people, we invest in our business. If they are growing, they feel we are committing to them, they have that nice progression part. It’s a two-way relationship., I always say in an interview, we are interviewing them, and they are interviewing us. I think that’s really key! It’s a bit like baking a cake if you get one person wrong, (the ingredients in the cake) it doesn’t rise and it cause a calamity, so we also look for the secret ingredients, so the personalities all entwine. You can have the skill sets, but do you have the right attitude and work rate.What does the future hold for ICG?
It’s so exciting I feel we are a train on a train track I feel we have momentum. I don’t know what it holds but I hope it holds a great future for lots of people! Everybody that works for us we have a responsibility to put bread on their table. Plus, importantly as we grow, we want it to feel fun, every day is an adventure and it’s about getting the brand out there to let everybody know that ICG is the family to work for!
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